You and I had very different reactions. I remember watching it in theaters and it was indeed return to the spirit of the originals… and the cinematography of the originals… and the plot of the originals…
Han Solo’s a smuggler again, the Empire is back, there’s another Death Star, and we’re back on a sand planet with a kid and her droids. This is just lazy, and set the tone for the entire series, that they were going to rely on audience pattern-matching between things they liked before as opposed to writing an actually interesting plot.
That Batman v Superman point you made is pretty damn sobering and explains a lot. Still, all things considered, I like at least two thirds of the sequel trilogy. The Force Awakens is a fun set up for The Last Jedi - still by far the best and most essential Star Wars film since the original trilogy. I actually think the film ends pretty well, and one can simply ignore The Rise of Skywalker. One can simply extrapolate what should have happened next (as I have). :)
I don’t mind the Poe stuff. Where I do agree is Finn would have been better served starting a stormtrooper rebellion (and in the third film he should have become a Jedi). But what we got was fine all the same. Not bad. And the good stuff with Luke, Rey, Kylo, etc is so good that it comes closer than ever to the standard of the original trilogy.
I’ve had a few ideas, though I haven’t time to discuss them here in any detail. Suffice it to say, in my mind, Rey goes on to what is, essentially, a kind of Jedi reformation. No more cult of chastity. A much greater understanding that the “emotions” of the dark side must be permitted to a degree, or else the repression of them simply leads to really nasty stuff. A kind of “grey” Jedi order, if you like. She’d also train Finn, who in turn would start a stormtrooper rebellion. Kylo is your main villain and he doesn’t recant but doubles down on evil at every turn, following his inner conflicts in the first two films. But he’s tormented by the ghost of Luke Skywalker, who crops up at a few points, and he and Rey continue to have chemistry, despite being arch enemies (this is milked for maximum melodrama but not smutty kicks). Also, Rey trains multiple new Jedi (including, potentially, broom boy). The resistance grows, and eventually pushes back against the First Order. Kylo is defeated but isn’t killed. He’s imprisoned, which Rey agrees with but is also heartbroken about. She goes to see him in prison. For the first time, we see actual consequences for a villain in Star Wars, not just an easy death. Anyway, those were a few of my ideas. Oh - and she isn’t a Palpatine. She’s still Rey from nowhere.
That makes sense, I could see it working out like that.
My main issue with the 8th is that otherwise, there is no villain that the 9th could use.
Kylo has lost to Rey twice, Snoke is dead, and sure the First Order is around, but “big group of soldiers” does not work as a foe without the emotional backing.
You’d either need, as you described, a lengthy and thorough exploration of Kylo that turns him back into an enemy we think Rey could lose to, or a similarly lengthy exploration setting up the Knights of Ren.
In either case unless you see a different way, TLJ unavoidably placed a crushing, impossible burden on the 9th film to create from nowhere a compelling antagonist, and anything under ~4 hours seems too short to do so.
The hype for The Phantom Menace (at least the trailer) was real. At one time, movies cost as little as $5. People were paying $5 to walk into a screening of Meet Joe Black just to watch the trailer for TPM, then walking out. Theaters started posting signs saying no refunds.
The inherent problem with TFA and ROS was the big idea: blow up yet another Death Star. Really wish Abrams had a modicum of a different idea.
I really liked TFA in isolation, thought it was a good course correct from the prequels at the time. Hard to think about it removed from the rest of the sequel trilogy though ☹️ are you looking forward to Mando and Starfighter?
There are things I love about TFA. Rey is great. Kylo is great -- what a fantastic choice of actor! Finn is charming as all heck. The film just looks fantastic, from start to finish.
And then there's the story, which is so disappointing. Tatooine is back - sorry, I mean Jakku. The Death Star is back - but this time it's a SUPER-Death Star! Han is a smuggler again, which is fairly heartbreaking. The Empire is back - sorry, I mean the First Order (have our core heroes been asleep these past few decades? How the heck did the First Order get so powerful when you're supposed to have Luke / Leia / Han protecting the galaxy?).
*I'm willing to overlook the blatant A New Hope copy/paste.*
I was with you very, very hard ... up until that point. The unoriginality of it was so depressing.
*The Sequel trilogy’s original sin can be found in its first installment. Why are there Stormtroopers running around again, and what’s with this Great Value brand Empire? Wasn’t there an entire trilogy already about beating these guys? *
And that's one of the reasons why. I could see the original sin watching the movie the first time. It didn't just drop the creative ball for one film, it started us down the dark path that guided the sequels' destiny.
Finn's underutilization. The entirety of Episode 8 minus the ending. The disjointed nature of Episode 9. The new Universe Disney take was so much of a lesser product in comparison to the Extended Universe pre-Disney/Kathleen destruction.
Cartoons about the Star Wars Universe have been far superior.
Great post and I felt all the same things about TFA. I enjoyed the movie and still don't hate it but it's hard to rewatch (without my kids being involved) knowing how it all ends... But I'm really here in the comments to give love to footnote 4. "Just know I didn't like it" made me chuckle and smile knowingly.
Between TFA and Rogue One, there was a brief period where Star Wars seemed downright cool again. My friends and relatives were gushing. In the Apple Store, everyone was crowding around the BB-8 toy that could be controlled via smart phone. I saw kids in the street, playing with imaginary lightsabers. TFA is not what I wanted… instead of moving the story forward, and showing the birth of a new republic, ect… Disney chose to cop out. But I still enjoyed TFA, regarded it as a really cool, professional love letter to SW, and figured it would not hurt George Lucas’s legacy.
Sadly TLJ tried to turn Star Wars into “Disney’s Star Wars.” It felt more like a Marvel movie than Star Wars. And all the energy went away.
I think The Force Awakens is (obviously) the start of the push and pull within Disney of playing it safe and trying new things. I think Disney is probably more hyper-sensitive to reactions than George would be. Because George only answered to himself. Disney will take chances on things like The Last Jedi, Andor, The Acolyte, and Rouge One. And other times they'll either play it safer or what they perceive as safer like The Force Awakens and Rise of Skywalker.
I had a lot of memories about RotJ, so a proper sequel was something I was looking forward to for years. So every additional book or sequel just increased the anticipation. Then, finally it came and instead of getting to find what world everyone built...
But then I saw the New Republic blown up. And Han Solo is a loser and gets killed by his son. And really, nobody's life turned out well. Han and Leia were estranged and she got to be a "general" for the failed New Republic.
While I get what they were attempting, the decisions amounted to bringing back token references to the old movies just to make new ones. They were never willing to really let old characters take center stage and effectively, everything that was fought for in the OT was for nothing.
So yeah TFA was quite entertaining, for a slap in the face.
“It’s easy to get hyperbolic about this stuff because it actually doesn’t matter.” Art in all forms matters. A lot. Wtf are you talking about? Star Wars especially has had more direct impact on the culture over the past 50 years than any of the Criterion top 100. TFA sucked partly because as a multibillion dollar IP, with that legacy hovering over it, it was cynically pandering to every possible demographic, and uninspired as a result. The other part was JJ Abrams, who’s never made a movie that meant a damn to anyone, really, but they make money and comfort investors.
This film ruined the franchise. It divided the fan base. Yes people liked the film but when an IP divided the audience, it's failed in it mission to encompass the whole audience.
Ryan Johnson was the wrong man to direct the film. His attitude towards the fan base was infuriating. I'm glad he was quietly shown the door. He also screwed up what JJ Abrams set up in TFA. Which was why the final film was a mess.
You and I had very different reactions. I remember watching it in theaters and it was indeed return to the spirit of the originals… and the cinematography of the originals… and the plot of the originals…
Han Solo’s a smuggler again, the Empire is back, there’s another Death Star, and we’re back on a sand planet with a kid and her droids. This is just lazy, and set the tone for the entire series, that they were going to rely on audience pattern-matching between things they liked before as opposed to writing an actually interesting plot.
That Batman v Superman point you made is pretty damn sobering and explains a lot. Still, all things considered, I like at least two thirds of the sequel trilogy. The Force Awakens is a fun set up for The Last Jedi - still by far the best and most essential Star Wars film since the original trilogy. I actually think the film ends pretty well, and one can simply ignore The Rise of Skywalker. One can simply extrapolate what should have happened next (as I have). :)
I love parts of TLJ and dislike parts of it, the net result being an uneven experience.
Good: Luke, Kylo, Rey, Yoda
Bad: Finn, Canto Bight, Poe
TLJ is some of the very best Star Wars and some of the worst in my opinion.
I don’t mind the Poe stuff. Where I do agree is Finn would have been better served starting a stormtrooper rebellion (and in the third film he should have become a Jedi). But what we got was fine all the same. Not bad. And the good stuff with Luke, Rey, Kylo, etc is so good that it comes closer than ever to the standard of the original trilogy.
I’ve always been upset because I can’t think of how it would end after TLJ, what did you imagine?
I’d love to have a head canon, but for me I just don’t know who the villain is.
IX is terrible, it obviously didn’t have whatever good ideas may exist.
But I haven’t been able to come up with any either.
I’ve had a few ideas, though I haven’t time to discuss them here in any detail. Suffice it to say, in my mind, Rey goes on to what is, essentially, a kind of Jedi reformation. No more cult of chastity. A much greater understanding that the “emotions” of the dark side must be permitted to a degree, or else the repression of them simply leads to really nasty stuff. A kind of “grey” Jedi order, if you like. She’d also train Finn, who in turn would start a stormtrooper rebellion. Kylo is your main villain and he doesn’t recant but doubles down on evil at every turn, following his inner conflicts in the first two films. But he’s tormented by the ghost of Luke Skywalker, who crops up at a few points, and he and Rey continue to have chemistry, despite being arch enemies (this is milked for maximum melodrama but not smutty kicks). Also, Rey trains multiple new Jedi (including, potentially, broom boy). The resistance grows, and eventually pushes back against the First Order. Kylo is defeated but isn’t killed. He’s imprisoned, which Rey agrees with but is also heartbroken about. She goes to see him in prison. For the first time, we see actual consequences for a villain in Star Wars, not just an easy death. Anyway, those were a few of my ideas. Oh - and she isn’t a Palpatine. She’s still Rey from nowhere.
You know, you’ve inspired me!
I’ll write an article discussing my exact thoughts on this, and you can let me know if you agree, or if I’m missing a way this could work.
Glad to have been an inspiration. Feel free to chuck me a link when you’ve written it. :)
Ohhh so it would be multiple films.
That makes sense, I could see it working out like that.
My main issue with the 8th is that otherwise, there is no villain that the 9th could use.
Kylo has lost to Rey twice, Snoke is dead, and sure the First Order is around, but “big group of soldiers” does not work as a foe without the emotional backing.
You’d either need, as you described, a lengthy and thorough exploration of Kylo that turns him back into an enemy we think Rey could lose to, or a similarly lengthy exploration setting up the Knights of Ren.
In either case unless you see a different way, TLJ unavoidably placed a crushing, impossible burden on the 9th film to create from nowhere a compelling antagonist, and anything under ~4 hours seems too short to do so.
I still think Kylo would have been all the antagonist episode 9 needed, with the right script. :)
The hype for The Phantom Menace (at least the trailer) was real. At one time, movies cost as little as $5. People were paying $5 to walk into a screening of Meet Joe Black just to watch the trailer for TPM, then walking out. Theaters started posting signs saying no refunds.
The inherent problem with TFA and ROS was the big idea: blow up yet another Death Star. Really wish Abrams had a modicum of a different idea.
I really liked TFA in isolation, thought it was a good course correct from the prequels at the time. Hard to think about it removed from the rest of the sequel trilogy though ☹️ are you looking forward to Mando and Starfighter?
Very much so! 🤓
There are things I love about TFA. Rey is great. Kylo is great -- what a fantastic choice of actor! Finn is charming as all heck. The film just looks fantastic, from start to finish.
And then there's the story, which is so disappointing. Tatooine is back - sorry, I mean Jakku. The Death Star is back - but this time it's a SUPER-Death Star! Han is a smuggler again, which is fairly heartbreaking. The Empire is back - sorry, I mean the First Order (have our core heroes been asleep these past few decades? How the heck did the First Order get so powerful when you're supposed to have Luke / Leia / Han protecting the galaxy?).
*I'm willing to overlook the blatant A New Hope copy/paste.*
I was with you very, very hard ... up until that point. The unoriginality of it was so depressing.
*The Sequel trilogy’s original sin can be found in its first installment. Why are there Stormtroopers running around again, and what’s with this Great Value brand Empire? Wasn’t there an entire trilogy already about beating these guys? *
And that's one of the reasons why. I could see the original sin watching the movie the first time. It didn't just drop the creative ball for one film, it started us down the dark path that guided the sequels' destiny.
Finn's underutilization. The entirety of Episode 8 minus the ending. The disjointed nature of Episode 9. The new Universe Disney take was so much of a lesser product in comparison to the Extended Universe pre-Disney/Kathleen destruction.
Cartoons about the Star Wars Universe have been far superior.
Fanfiction in some cases has also been far superior. Just not a very well maintained Universe cinematically.
As Bob Wills & The Texas Playboys would have sang it: "Take me back to Jakku/I'm too young to marry/Take me back to Jakku/I'm too young to marry..."
Great post and I felt all the same things about TFA. I enjoyed the movie and still don't hate it but it's hard to rewatch (without my kids being involved) knowing how it all ends... But I'm really here in the comments to give love to footnote 4. "Just know I didn't like it" made me chuckle and smile knowingly.
Writing footnotes is my favorite part! :D
Thanks for keeping things Mom friendly. 😊
Between TFA and Rogue One, there was a brief period where Star Wars seemed downright cool again. My friends and relatives were gushing. In the Apple Store, everyone was crowding around the BB-8 toy that could be controlled via smart phone. I saw kids in the street, playing with imaginary lightsabers. TFA is not what I wanted… instead of moving the story forward, and showing the birth of a new republic, ect… Disney chose to cop out. But I still enjoyed TFA, regarded it as a really cool, professional love letter to SW, and figured it would not hurt George Lucas’s legacy.
Sadly TLJ tried to turn Star Wars into “Disney’s Star Wars.” It felt more like a Marvel movie than Star Wars. And all the energy went away.
Such a shame. They almost had something
Entertainment and the force awakens go together like oil and water.
I think The Force Awakens is (obviously) the start of the push and pull within Disney of playing it safe and trying new things. I think Disney is probably more hyper-sensitive to reactions than George would be. Because George only answered to himself. Disney will take chances on things like The Last Jedi, Andor, The Acolyte, and Rouge One. And other times they'll either play it safer or what they perceive as safer like The Force Awakens and Rise of Skywalker.
I had a lot of memories about RotJ, so a proper sequel was something I was looking forward to for years. So every additional book or sequel just increased the anticipation. Then, finally it came and instead of getting to find what world everyone built...
But then I saw the New Republic blown up. And Han Solo is a loser and gets killed by his son. And really, nobody's life turned out well. Han and Leia were estranged and she got to be a "general" for the failed New Republic.
While I get what they were attempting, the decisions amounted to bringing back token references to the old movies just to make new ones. They were never willing to really let old characters take center stage and effectively, everything that was fought for in the OT was for nothing.
So yeah TFA was quite entertaining, for a slap in the face.
“It’s easy to get hyperbolic about this stuff because it actually doesn’t matter.” Art in all forms matters. A lot. Wtf are you talking about? Star Wars especially has had more direct impact on the culture over the past 50 years than any of the Criterion top 100. TFA sucked partly because as a multibillion dollar IP, with that legacy hovering over it, it was cynically pandering to every possible demographic, and uninspired as a result. The other part was JJ Abrams, who’s never made a movie that meant a damn to anyone, really, but they make money and comfort investors.
This film ruined the franchise. It divided the fan base. Yes people liked the film but when an IP divided the audience, it's failed in it mission to encompass the whole audience.
Ryan Johnson was the wrong man to direct the film. His attitude towards the fan base was infuriating. I'm glad he was quietly shown the door. He also screwed up what JJ Abrams set up in TFA. Which was why the final film was a mess.